News - Midlands
I've waited a while to catch up with Derek Mapp. Off on another deal? Off on another government secondment maybe? Off on the golf course even? Wrong, wrong and definitely wrong again (more of that later).
Instead he's been on the other side of the world. "I hadn't had a weekend off in six years since I took up the emda (East Midlands Development Agency) chairmanship," he reflects. "I thought it was time for a break." So, having finally said goodbye to emda last Christmas, off he went on his travels Down Under.
"I simply said to people that I'm going to have three months off. Ring me after 15 April." Has he had a few calls since? "Um, yes, one or two," he replies with his trademark cheeky grin.
Not surprisingly Mapp looks fit, well, and is immaculately dressed. By contrast I'm in a bit of a state. Having had three months to wait, I'm the one who ends up being half an hour late for our date at The Cavendish Hotel, Baslow, right on the edge of Derbyshire's Chatsworth Estate and near Mapp's home. Given my tardiness there is no time for chit chat and we proceed direct to The Gallery for lunch, so named because of the beautiful westward Peak District vista.
Despite his recent travels, Mapp, who made his name building up the Tom Cobleigh pub chain and is one of Britain's most respected entrepreneurs, still has plenty of affairs to keep on top of, involved as he is in a string of ventures ranging from key boardroom positions with several companies through to managing his very own herds of deer and business starter units back at home.
Indeed, on the corporate front Mapp remained devilishly busy despite the outside perception that his emda role was all-consuming. As he begins running unprovoked through his current business roles, I admit that I wasn't aware of all of them. "I suppose I've deliberately kept them a little quiet," he replies.
For starters there's his role at publishing and conferences group T&F Informa, where he has been on the board since the original flotation of the business back in 1998. "The link goes back to when I had just left Tom Cobleigh and they wanted someone with commercial savvy," explains Mapp who is now the senior independent chairman of its audit committee, a job he admits takes up a lot of time given the ever growing raft of corporate governance issues.
Another business that Mapp has backed from its early days (and which also benefited from his services after he sold the Tom Cobleigh pub chain to Rank in 1998) is Imagesound, the Nottinghamshire company which provides music to some 12,500 retail stores and pubs and which floated on the alternative investment market (AIM) last year. Mapp, who backed the original buyout six years ago, remains the largest shareholder.
Then there's his chairmanship of Staffline too, the specialist supplier of blue collar temporary and contract staff, which also floated on AIM last year. And lest we forget there are those ventures that he has disposed of such as the childcare nursery group Leapfrog, which he sold to Nord Anglia Education for £360m last year.
All of which makes me think that Mapp's mobile was certainly a little busier than he says during his sabbatical.
Although every business venture Mapp has been involved with he has seemingly touched to gold, he admits that it has come at a personal price, which explains the sabbatical. For instance, he says that he "took too much on" after selling Tom Cobleigh.
"The greatest mistake I made when I sold Cobleigh was that I felt I had to fill every minute of every day. I never left myself with any space. I decided to throw myself into many ventures because I felt I needed to keep myself busy," says Mapp.
That list included the emda role, which would have been enough on its own for most people. "I think the biggest thing with the emda job was the sheer mass of reading involved. You would go into meetings in Whitehall where if you weren't clued up you were in real trouble," he says.
Despite his track record, Mapp is surprisingly outspoken against life as a pluralist though. "Some people who are on the boards of X,Y and Z are simply just carrying the badge. I only like to get involved with a business if I am adding value," says Mapp.
So, now that his emda days are over, is there room in his portfolio for anything more? More to the point, does he want anything more?
Mapp seems to know the answer to the first question, but is surprisingly unsure on the second. I ask him what drives him these days and get the distinct impression it is a question no-one has ever needed to ask him before. After a long pause, he replies: "Good question. You know I'm not entirely sure."
Could it be that for the first time in his career this fabled entrepreneur really is at some kind of crossroads? Is the fire still burning for another business venture?
"Put it another way, am I doing enough now? Well, I have left myself enough time to do something extra if I want to and I've probably got room for one more major role of some substance. However, you do not just pretend you can do another job. If you do too much you do not have enough quality thinking time for those that you are doing."
What about another government role? "When I was away I did ask myself whether I wanted to do anything more in government circles. However, being a regional development agency chairman is the best job a businessman can ever do because the range of things you get involved with is so extensive. I'm not sure how I would match that," says Mapp.
He adds: "I will keep championing the things I believe strongly in, such as the regional debate, but my job in government is done now."
I suggest he should reconsider his political plans - after all he was once a county councillor back in Warrington at the age of 21 but only served one term. "I suppose I am a bit of a frustrated politician, but at 54 I'm too old now," says Mapp.
Let's hope his view may yet change because Mapp still has some very interesting things to say. Take business support: "There is still a whole lot to do regards the whole support mechanism, the whole culture. What the Department of Trade and Industry really needs is better people who understand business. They've got 5,000 workers, of which on the whole the quality is mediocre. But they don't pay what is needed to attract the quality. They need a slimmed down organisation.
"The government is far too interventionist, it needs to create an environment for business to prosper. Where are the incentives? What incentives are there to bring on employers to train people with the future skills we require? What are we doing with the tax system, is it right? We need more tax incentives, we need to steer investment into certain areas through tax."
Take business incubation: "We are still not doing enough to get the knowledge we have in universities into the business world. Although I've never seen it as the panacea for everything, it is a business opportunity. Sometimes we can be led into the misguided belief that everything relies on universities. That said we are still pretty hopeless at getting the most out of them."
So passionate is Mapp on the subject that he casually adds that he has just taken up an advisory role at Loughborough University on the promotion of spin-outs.
But it is on the devolution debate that Mapp continues to be most animated, complaining that he and others spent far too much of his last three years at emda being distracted by the question of whether or not there was going to be regional government.
For Mapp the issue detracts from more pressing matters, namely the continuing disadvantages that English regions face and the lack of joined-up thinking in the way the government pours billions into the regions.
"The English regions are now at a significant disadvantage in the way that they can make decisions. The Scottish population is the same as the East Midlands yet they have executive responsibility over decisions. You also still have the Barnett funding formula. We have got to get a better geographical delegation of authority. We are still far too London-centric," says Mapp.
For him it is the simple things that aren't being done. "Why not let local authorities keep business rates themselves? Why is there still insufficient co-ordination between local authorities, government offices and health authorities at a time when there is massive investment going into schools and health?
Mapp's big idea is a minister for each UK region who would report directly to a cabinet minister. "He or she would be responsible for the co-ordination of all government departments in a certain region," he explains.
Isn't that something emda does already? "No, at the moment it is just one part of the jigsaw. It cannot influence what local government is doing. When I was there the emda budget was tiny. It had only a teaspoon from a very big cup to deliver economic growth for the region, but that didn't mean to say that you couldn't make changes. Look at the work in the coalfields for example. I don't think there is a problem in the coalfields anymore."
I ask how far he intends to go with his campaign. "Oh, I'll keep making noises in certain places but that's as far as it goes."
Instead, it looks like Mapp will stick for a good few years yet at doing what he does best - being one of the canniest investors around. However, he adds: "Running a business is not an academic exercise you know. I have learnt the hard way too."
Oh yes, and you might even spot Mapp on the golf course now too. As he explains: "I joined this club nine years ago but have never played. I kept the membership at something like £3650 a year because I didn't want to then have to wait years and years to become a member. Turns out that they are now short of members so I could have cancelled the membership years ago," he bemoans.
Still, he can afford it.
Working Lunch
I've waited a while to catch up with Derek Mapp. Off on another deal? Off on another government secondment maybe? Off on the golf course even? Wrong, wrong and definitely wrong again (more of that later).
Instead he's been on the other side of the world. "I hadn't had a weekend off in six years since I took up the emda (East Midlands Development Agency) chairmanship," he reflects. "I thought it was time for a break." So, having finally said goodbye to emda last Christmas, off he went on his travels Down Under.
"I simply said to people that I'm going to have three months off. Ring me after 15 April." Has he had a few calls since? "Um, yes, one or two," he replies with his trademark cheeky grin.
Not surprisingly Mapp looks fit, well, and is immaculately dressed. By contrast I'm in a bit of a state. Having had three months to wait, I'm the one who ends up being half an hour late for our date at The Cavendish Hotel, Baslow, right on the edge of Derbyshire's Chatsworth Estate and near Mapp's home. Given my tardiness there is no time for chit chat and we proceed direct to The Gallery for lunch, so named because of the beautiful westward Peak District vista.
Despite his recent travels, Mapp, who made his name building up the Tom Cobleigh pub chain and is one of Britain's most respected entrepreneurs, still has plenty of affairs to keep on top of, involved as he is in a string of ventures ranging from key boardroom positions with several companies through to managing his very own herds of deer and business starter units back at home.
Indeed, on the corporate front Mapp remained devilishly busy despite the outside perception that his emda role was all-consuming. As he begins running unprovoked through his current business roles, I admit that I wasn't aware of all of them. "I suppose I've deliberately kept them a little quiet," he replies.
For starters there's his role at publishing and conferences group T&F Informa, where he has been on the board since the original flotation of the business back in 1998. "The link goes back to when I had just left Tom Cobleigh and they wanted someone with commercial savvy," explains Mapp who is now the senior independent chairman of its audit committee, a job he admits takes up a lot of time given the ever growing raft of corporate governance issues.
Another business that Mapp has backed from its early days (and which also benefited from his services after he sold the Tom Cobleigh pub chain to Rank in 1998) is Imagesound, the Nottinghamshire company which provides music to some 12,500 retail stores and pubs and which floated on the alternative investment market (AIM) last year. Mapp, who backed the original buyout six years ago, remains the largest shareholder.
Then there's his chairmanship of Staffline too, the specialist supplier of blue collar temporary and contract staff, which also floated on AIM last year. And lest we forget there are those ventures that he has disposed of such as the childcare nursery group Leapfrog, which he sold to Nord Anglia Education for £360m last year.
All of which makes me think that Mapp's mobile was certainly a little busier than he says during his sabbatical.
Although every business venture Mapp has been involved with he has seemingly touched to gold, he admits that it has come at a personal price, which explains the sabbatical. For instance, he says that he "took too much on" after selling Tom Cobleigh.
"The greatest mistake I made when I sold Cobleigh was that I felt I had to fill every minute of every day. I never left myself with any space. I decided to throw myself into many ventures because I felt I needed to keep myself busy," says Mapp.
That list included the emda role, which would have been enough on its own for most people. "I think the biggest thing with the emda job was the sheer mass of reading involved. You would go into meetings in Whitehall where if you weren't clued up you were in real trouble," he says.
Despite his track record, Mapp is surprisingly outspoken against life as a pluralist though. "Some people who are on the boards of X,Y and Z are simply just carrying the badge. I only like to get involved with a business if I am adding value," says Mapp.
So, now that his emda days are over, is there room in his portfolio for anything more? More to the point, does he want anything more?
Mapp seems to know the answer to the first question, but is surprisingly unsure on the second. I ask him what drives him these days and get the distinct impression it is a question no-one has ever needed to ask him before. After a long pause, he replies: "Good question. You know I'm not entirely sure."
Could it be that for the first time in his career this fabled entrepreneur really is at some kind of crossroads? Is the fire still burning for another business venture?
"Put it another way, am I doing enough now? Well, I have left myself enough time to do something extra if I want to and I've probably got room for one more major role of some substance. However, you do not just pretend you can do another job. If you do too much you do not have enough quality thinking time for those that you are doing."
What about another government role? "When I was away I did ask myself whether I wanted to do anything more in government circles. However, being a regional development agency chairman is the best job a businessman can ever do because the range of things you get involved with is so extensive. I'm not sure how I would match that," says Mapp.
He adds: "I will keep championing the things I believe strongly in, such as the regional debate, but my job in government is done now."
I suggest he should reconsider his political plans - after all he was once a county councillor back in Warrington at the age of 21 but only served one term. "I suppose I am a bit of a frustrated politician, but at 54 I'm too old now," says Mapp.
Let's hope his view may yet change because Mapp still has some very interesting things to say. Take business support: "There is still a whole lot to do regards the whole support mechanism, the whole culture. What the Department of Trade and Industry really needs is better people who understand business. They've got 5,000 workers, of which on the whole the quality is mediocre. But they don't pay what is needed to attract the quality. They need a slimmed down organisation.
"The government is far too interventionist, it needs to create an environment for business to prosper. Where are the incentives? What incentives are there to bring on employers to train people with the future skills we require? What are we doing with the tax system, is it right? We need more tax incentives, we need to steer investment into certain areas through tax."
Take business incubation: "We are still not doing enough to get the knowledge we have in universities into the business world. Although I've never seen it as the panacea for everything, it is a business opportunity. Sometimes we can be led into the misguided belief that everything relies on universities. That said we are still pretty hopeless at getting the most out of them."
So passionate is Mapp on the subject that he casually adds that he has just taken up an advisory role at Loughborough University on the promotion of spin-outs.
But it is on the devolution debate that Mapp continues to be most animated, complaining that he and others spent far too much of his last three years at emda being distracted by the question of whether or not there was going to be regional government.
For Mapp the issue detracts from more pressing matters, namely the continuing disadvantages that English regions face and the lack of joined-up thinking in the way the government pours billions into the regions.
"The English regions are now at a significant disadvantage in the way that they can make decisions. The Scottish population is the same as the East Midlands yet they have executive responsibility over decisions. You also still have the Barnett funding formula. We have got to get a better geographical delegation of authority. We are still far too London-centric," says Mapp.
For him it is the simple things that aren't being done. "Why not let local authorities keep business rates themselves? Why is there still insufficient co-ordination between local authorities, government offices and health authorities at a time when there is massive investment going into schools and health?
Mapp's big idea is a minister for each UK region who would report directly to a cabinet minister. "He or she would be responsible for the co-ordination of all government departments in a certain region," he explains.
Isn't that something emda does already? "No, at the moment it is just one part of the jigsaw. It cannot influence what local government is doing. When I was there the emda budget was tiny. It had only a teaspoon from a very big cup to deliver economic growth for the region, but that didn't mean to say that you couldn't make changes. Look at the work in the coalfields for example. I don't think there is a problem in the coalfields anymore."
I ask how far he intends to go with his campaign. "Oh, I'll keep making noises in certain places but that's as far as it goes."
Instead, it looks like Mapp will stick for a good few years yet at doing what he does best - being one of the canniest investors around. However, he adds: "Running a business is not an academic exercise you know. I have learnt the hard way too."
Oh yes, and you might even spot Mapp on the golf course now too. As he explains: "I joined this club nine years ago but have never played. I kept the membership at something like £3650 a year because I didn't want to then have to wait years and years to become a member. Turns out that they are now short of members so I could have cancelled the membership years ago," he bemoans.
Still, he can afford it.