Speaking as one
Is the government's regional policy working? More to the point, does it have one?
Roger Madelin The government has a policy for everything you can think of at the moment. The State of the Cities report that Professor Michael Parkinson launched with John Prescott earlier this year was the most comprehensive study anyone has ever undertaken in this area. That said, it came up with the startling conclusion that if the economy is successful, deprivation reduces. However being more serious Parkinson is a fantastic academic and a good bloke which is very important to cut through all the red tape. Of course there is a policy. However every now and again you need to step back and say that to get our cities more successful the economy needs to be successful.
Graham Cartledge It took us 12 years to deliver the Bullring. It took me 15 months to do a project of a similar size in Beijing just recently. I think one needs to start to engage with what is happening in the world to see what challenges all the UK regions. I think it was good to see Birmingham represented at MIPIM Asia last week for instance. They are building great airports, infrastructure, railway systems over there. We have just got to get on and keep pace with that in the UK.
Howard Bernstein We certainly have a regional policy. What I would question is whether or not we have got the focus on certain outcomes in regional policy. Whether or not as a nation we differentiate between the different towns and cities which are capable of driving UK plc, there is a big temptation for some indifferent government - I don't think it just applies to this one - to actually look at the one size fits all approach as though the problems and opportunities in somewhere like Watford are the same as those as here in Birmingham. We have got to be much more discriminatory. Also I think we are a lot better off for having regional development agencies considering the laissez-faire free for all that we had prior to them. However I would like to see a much stronger influence from the centre on the activities of RDAs about narrowing regional productivity differences between the rest of the country and the South East. The gap today is as wide as it was several years ago. Until RDAs start to be evaluated on those terms and their ability to close the gap, I don't think we'll have a regional policy which in my view is fit for purpose where big cities are concerned.
Clive Dutton It is a relatively recent phenomena that government recognises the primacy of the economic development of cities in this country. One of the great improvements that has taken place in recent years has been the alliance of the core cities in acknowledging there is strength in working together and to influence government policy overall. There is a recognition that our core cities being successful is in the national interest. I also strongly believe that if you always wait for the answer to come from civil servants you don't necessarily get the response that actually fits the circumstance. As such I think the future is in our hands. The combination of the potency of the city authorities and private sector development working with city councils is extremely powerful. I think cities are working closer together now and increasingly speaking with one voice and with a strong dialogue with the highest levels of government.
Barry Horne It is not a regional policy that we specifically need, we need more space and more capacity. It is about lifting up the performance of other cities to London's level and at the moment the focus on the content of regional policy is not particularly helpful.
Alan Griffith, Cyril Sweett (audience)
The transport infrastructure of our cities is crucial to the inward investment and strategic development of the regions. Is the political will and financial support available from central government to tackle the increasing problem and if not what actions can be taken to support our councillors and planners?
Bernstein There are two issues here. The first is the national cake and its relevance to transport and whether we are getting our fair share. I am not a whinger about London. I am from the school where we need and demand a very, very healthy London in order to support that cake. However what we are starting to see is a competition between different cities outside London for the privilege of picking up what is left. Of course at times some competition is healthy, but we have to ensure that the big cities secure a level of investment which is commensurate with their size and status. The second issue is the relationship between investment and congestion. If I stood up in front of the business community in Manchester and said I believe road pricing is absolutely essential because government has told us to do it we won't be doing it. Instead we have to demonstrate that it is in Manchester's interest that road pricing is part and parcel of the way we see our economy growing. The question is to what extent will congestion constrain growth. The work we have done in Manchester shows there will be a very, very significant impact on the size and scale of labour markets, which ultimately will impact on the locational decisions of business in places like Manchester. So there is an in principle case for us to be looking at road pricing which is what we have agreed among the 10 local authorities of Greater Manchester. We have been doing significant work on this over the past few months and will continue to do so. That doesn't mean that we are committed to it. What we have got to do is work out the basis upon which, if at all, road pricing can actually form part of a detailed infrastructure plan for the city. All of us need to be approaching it in that way and avoid what could be the wasteful, unnecessary outcomes associated with this being depicted as a Manchester versus Birmingham contest only because there is just enough money to sort out one city. We need to be a bit cleverer than that.
Roger, you've had the experience of living with the congestion charge in London. What is your take?
Madelin Congestion charging was supported by business on the basis that funds would be invested back into public transport and what's happened is that London is now voted as having the best public transport system in the world by international business. If you are in London you wouldn't believe it for one minute but if you just take a step back it is not bad and the amount of money going into public transport now is huge because Livingstone now has fundraising powers. Until regions have their own fundraising powers you are not going to get a step change. Manchester is relatively lucky because it has a great international airport, tram system, a decent rail service. But don't think London gets money easily. The Kings Cross redevelopment has only happened because of the Olympics. The benefits of London's economy will spill out and we continue to invest in London, Birmingham and Manchester because London is strong, not because Birmingham and Manchester are strong.
Dutton It seems bizarre in the extreme why there are projects at the foremost of individual city priorities and therefore in the national interest which are treated the same as any other project in any other place in the country. There must be a different method of procuring and delivering major infrastructure development. It is unacceptable to be waiting 15, 20, 30 years to be developing stations, airports, light rapid transit. There must be a more pragmatic approach.
Horne The problems we have had with extending our tram network is a good example of the challenge and relationship between cities and central government. It took us 13 years to get line one of the tram and we have spent the last two years in detailed discussions about how we build the next two lines. The biggest issue boils down to whether it can be off the balance sheet as a PFI (Private Finance Initiative) scheme. We know this is important locally and yet it is still dependent on who the latest minister is. In reality we take all the risks. Meanwhile as a city we have been positive for a good while about looking at congestion charging for the right reasons, not just for its own sake. We will only talk about that pain when we have certainty about the gain of an enhanced transport system and at the heart of that are the extensions to the tram. We are still optimistic that will happen but it is an incredibly painful process.
Bernstein We have just got another three tram lines away with £3670m agreed from the government in a very complicated funding package. I think with regards light rail some of us have been caught up in a wider national debate where because of the success of some light rail schemes everyone else thought it was the panacea to their transport problems too. As a result a whole range of different initiatives were stored up into the system which the nation simply couldn't afford. The department of transport ran out of money when Network Rail went
wherever it went, and two years ago they started to play hardball with places like Manchester and Nottingham, questioning the viability and value for money of different schemes. This was partly because of the number of schemes in the system, but also because they didn't have any money to spend. We have all been put through the mill over the last few years. If the government had been more upfront a few years back about this life would have been a lot simpler. We should have greater responsibility for how we meet our own transport needs, that's all the big cities.
Cartledge I have been in Hong Kong recently on a number of projects where it is remarkable to see how new rail lines have turned whole areas into cities. The private sector has also had a big role to play. If you look at New Street rail station in Birmingham and can exploit the commercial opportunity above the station there has to be something there. We are also desperately short of quality rail connections from the Midlands to London. The way you get people out to the regions is better long-haul activity whether by rail or air. If we have to get private sector involved then let's do it quickly.
Griffith Howard, what support do you get from the business community to achieve your objectives?
Bernstein We all have our different way of doing things. We found that if we are going to enjoy the respect and support of the private sector then we have to share the vision, agree the strategy. If you take transport we have been working closely in evaluating connections between congestion, investment and economic growth. We are not doing it because government told us to or because Birmingham are doing it. We are doing it in our own way. What we have to do collectively is work through with the private sector how we see the debate unravelling. At an appropriate stage there ought yes to be consultation between Manchester and Birmingham for instance. Indeed I met the chief executive of Birmingham city council only this morning and we both agreed that we needed to sit down and talk about this over the next few months because this is one of a number of issues where the cities ought to be more engaged. We've a common agenda.
Madelin We have just got to make our cities bigger. London is successful because it is big. That's what makes it a vibrant, successful economy and is why people want to go there because it has lots to offer. Cities have got to get bigger, have a better offer and attract immigration and retain skills. It is all fairly simple stuff.
What about lobbying? Manchester is perceived as being ahead of the game here compared to Birmingham and Nottingham?
Dutton There are opportunities to sophisticate the lobby and there are interesting ways in which we could do that. It is powerful when local authorities and other public sector organisations say what is best for their city, but powerful in the extreme when that is done with the private sector in a compelling way.
John James, Insitute of Directors (audience)
We have been talking about city regions. Howard, what do you believe is the role of city regions in terms of driving cities forward?
Bernstein I don't see any merit in any long, protracted debate about local government functions, powers and boundaries. It is completely irrelevant to most people, including many people in local government. To be honest it is a complete sideshow. What you need to create among those leaders in those places with the private sector are a common set of priorities and goals.
Horne It is not about boundaries. For us you effectively have a three city region with Nottingham, Derby and Leicester. Between them they have 2.4m people, which is a similar size to the Birmingham city region. There is a fair amount we can collaborate on in the East Midlands.
Keith Bracey, Locate in Birmingham (audience). How much does Manchester United put Manchester on the map?
Bernstein There's no doubt United is a fundamental part of our international branding. United has embraced Manchester completely in the last few years. One cannot pay a high enough tribute to what they do for the city. Dutton United is a global brand and we are envious of that. As you travel the world the topic of conversation is always about Premiership football. We have already begun looking at how we can better exploit Villa.
